Firm Roots: Brian Nicholson on Red Jacket Orchards, Family, and Leadership
Brian Nicholson is the CEO and President of Red Jacket Orchards, a multi-generational fruit and juice business located in Geneva, New York. Mr. Nicholson joined the company in 2000 and since then has led Red Jacket Orchards in a 23-year growth period resulting in an 8-fold expansion of sales. From a once local fruit farm, RJO has expanded to 600-acres and their fresh-pressed, natural juices can be found online and at Whole Foods, and other major grocery stores, from Texas to Maine. They produce apples and summer fruits like berries, currants, cherries, peaches, plums, and they have the largest apricot orchard on the East Coast. Their juices are made in a LEED certified production facility using 100% green energy. Additionally, a few days after our conversation, Mr. Nicholson’s twin brother, an agriculture and food security lobbyist in DC, rejoined the company.
Tune in to hear our conversation about both being identical twins, RJO’s history, balancing preserving the company’s tradition while navigating modern changes, what leadership means to Mr. Nicholson, RJO’s commitment to integrity, sustainability, and innovation.
Transcript
Lauren Stenger: Thank you so much. Mr. Nicholson for being here with me today. I really appreciate your time. I'm super excited to talk to you all about all about Red Jacket Orchards and all you've done for your multi-generational family company. Before we go into the business, career-oriented questions, I'd love to connect over something that's very unique, but we both have in common, which is being an identical twin. I would love to just hear about what it was like for you growing up with a twin brother and how that relationship has evolved from childhood to adolescence to now adulthood.
What it was like for you growing up with an identical twin and how has that relationship evolved from childhood to adolescence to now adulthood?
Brian Nicholson: Great question, and it's nice to be able to talk to another identical twin, it's kind of interesting to share insights. It's funny, I saw your question there, and my first thing I was like, when I'm typically asked that question, my standard response is, well, I can tell you what it's like to be an identical twin, but I don't know what it's like not to be an identical twin.
Lauren Stenger: Right.
Brian Nicholson: So that's what I usually start with that. My experience being an identical twin is fun and unique and I don't know anything different. I know typically people ask that question and I can't give this back to you, but typically my response is like, I don't know, what is it like to be a single child?
It's funny because my brother and I are also very identical. And I think it's funny, you're a lot younger than I am, I'm now 51, and it seems like my brother and I start looking even more alike, funny enough, as we've aged. And to the extent where my wife the other day said, “You know your hair, you've styled a little differently and you're looking a lot like your brother and it's kind of freaking me out.”
Lauren Stenger: That's interesting that as you get older, you guys look more similar.
Brian Nicholson: Yeah. And I don't know if that's for everyone, but for us, it is definitely. He lives in DC, and I live up here. We worked together in the business for over 20 years and then he left the business, and so when we're together, even like on personal stuff or whatever, I always say, are you ready for the twin looks and the twin questions? Cause we do, if we are anywhere together, we still get the sort of stop and take a second look and the surprise. The one thing I would say that’s been really unique is, you know, human nature is kind of funny, right? Most people are a little standoffish when they meet people or, you know, there's this process of getting to know someone. I think in being an identical twin, my wife will disagree with this, but I would describe when we were growing up as kind of being both pretty shy. But, I wasn't allowed to be shy because people would instantly lower their guard and enter your world, right?
“You know, there’s this process of getting to know someone. I think in being an identical twin, ... people would instantly lower their guard and enter your world.”
Lauren Stenger: Yes, I totally agree.
Brian Nicholson: Being an identical twin is kind of like being a circus act, which just like a double-edged sword, right? For me it's been cool because, sort of being shy, I am pretty outgoing certainly as I grew up, but I think being a twin is what helped really kind of drive that. I don't know about your twin, but Mark typically was the one I would describe as the less patient twin with the process. So he would try and kind of extricate himself out of that conversation and I was usually left to do the talking to some extent.
I'm grateful to my parents, they did raise us quite separately, sometimes twins are dressed the same or, they kind of carry on a twin persona and they're pretty connected. Mark and I were certainly connected, but I think also always very striving for our independence, so we're a little bit of opposites, he would kind of be the smarter one or the quiet one, and I was a little bit more of the comedian and the outgoing one to kind of deflect that sort of attention, and he certainly did shape who I am today for sure. I think we complement each other very well. That's always been a great part of growing up, and I was fortunate enough that my brother and I went to college together. We joined the same fraternity together, and I never planned those things. In fact, I have a lot of gratitude for him because he would pull me into some things that I wasn't necessarily going to do possibly on my own. So I actually probably have to share gratitude for him for allowing me to kind of be the the front person or the outgoing person sometimes that came with its sort of bad or should I say side effects.
When Mark would be on campus and somebody would say, “Hey, did you study for your econ test?” I'll also call him; he pulled the lazy twin card where he wouldn't necessarily want to get into that conversation. So he would just answer it for me. He's like, “Uh, no, I haven't done the studying yet. Have a great day.” I'm just wondering how many people out there felt that I, or the Nicholson they knew, was like bipolar or something, right? Because we'd show up one moment, and then in a different environment they'd get a different experience because sometimes you just wouldn't like to disclose it.
Lauren Stenger: Yeah, I know, my sister Kate, we're go to school together, same sorority, but we're involved in different clubs. So sometimes I'll notice when I'm walking to class, someone will give me a really friendly smile, complete stranger, and I don't smile back, which I probably should, but my AirPods are in. And then it hits me that they probably know Kate through some other organization I don't even know about. And now they think Kate is being rude or standoffish. So it's just such an interesting dynamic.
Brian Nicholson: Totally understand. Had a lot of experiences too where I'd be a little paranoid, right? And then, there would be the inevitable sort of embarrassment, like, “Hey, I'm Brian, maybe you know my brother Mark.” And they're like, “No, I know you.” You're like, “Oh shoot. I'm sorry. I don't remember you.”
Lauren Stenger: So, that's really cool growing up with a built-in best friend and then you guys did some work together working for your family business. I'd love to hear, I know you weren't around for the inception of Red Jacket Orchards, but I'd love to hear you tell the story of the creation of this company back in 1958.
Can you share the creation story of Red Jacket Orchards back in 1958?
Brian Nicholson: Sure. So yeah, it's a really, it's a great story. It's a family business that my grandparents purchased in 1958. They ran a Turkey farm in Long Island and wasn't their choice, but back in the 50s, there was the Robert Moses era of expansion, putting highways in. Well, they decided to put a highway over my grandparents, turkey farm. All of a sudden, they found themselves without a business, which I can imagine was quite disconcerting, but they were compensated decently for it. And then they started looking for the next thing to do, and they answered an ad in the New York Times. It was about a small fruit orchard, about a hundred acres in Geneva, New York, and I guess my grandfather had spent some time coming up to Lake Ithaca to Cornell for the veterinary, anything that was related to, poultry, et cetera. So he had some exposure to the Finger Lakes area. He took my dad, who was in high school at the time, up to see the business. It was in February, and I love the story they tell. So in February, they show up and the owner wasn't there. He was in Florida. So my dad always recounts that was like the best moment for him. He's like, wait a minute. You can own a farm and not be there 24 hours a day? Oh yeah. Trees go dormant in the winter. You know, you can't do that with poultry. So they bought the farm and moved the entire family up site unseen. At that time, it was about a hundred acres of some mixed orchards. There was an old cherry canning factory on it, but it was really kind of cool and I think this set the tone for who we are today, is they had this small retail stand. And so, and they did do retail out of their business in Long Island. In fact, they were doing prepared meals back in the 50s, which seems kind of commonplace today. So they moved up. As my dad tells it, my grandfather really knew nothing about fruit growing, so the first several years were quite lean as he was learning and making mistakes and all that.
But what was really cool is it's on 5 & 20 and 5 & 20; up here it's the famous stagecoach route they call it. So 20 basically goes all the way from Boston to San Francisco, and this was before the New York state thruway. So this was a major “thoroughfare” in the fifties. So they built up a pretty recognized retail business. They built a larger retail store and they did that basically for the majority of when they ran the business until my dad came back. It was primarily grow the fruit, sell it, retail. My grandfather did start making like apple cider in a barn. Then my dad and my mom came back in 1972. My dad had been in the Navy and he had been in Wall Street and he had an MBA in finance. He had no fruit growing experience and no education in horticulture really. He came in and he started helping out, and what my father really did was drive the growth in the orchard business. He really did fall in love with orchards. He fell in love with growing things. To this day, I say that he's a bit of an addicted farmer. If he's not planting something, he's like having withdrawal. He really grew the business to about 500 acres and it metamorphic it evolved from basically mostly retail to mostly wholesale. And that's kind of the stamp that he put on it.
So, I'm two months old when I move up with my twin brother. I have an older brother, two years old at that point. And then I had a younger sister come along four years later. And, it was a really great experience. We literally did grow up on the farm. I watched my dad work super hard. My mom was a teacher. They recognized early on in the process that they could not work together, so my mom went back to teaching. It was really kind of cool. My grandparents lived on one part of the orchard, and we lived on the other, so we were always going over there for like lunch or something like that. I always remember that if we were sitting around the house pretty much from the age of maybe 12 and up like on a weekend my dad's like, oh, no. No, we're not sitting around here. Oh, no. I got some work for you guys and we're always pretty much tasked with some sort of work to do from the age of 12 and up.
Lauren Stenger: So when you were a kid, did you enjoy being involved in the business?
When you were a kid, did you enjoy being involved in the business?
Brian Nicholson: Absolutely not. I joke with my dad today, I'm like, you didn't really do a good job of selling us on the business. You know, sending us out in an orchard when it's 90 degrees out to wrap wrap cards around a tree. Which is the most boring, mundane. You're younger, so it's not much you, kind of, type of jobs you could do, and I'm pretty sure all of the ones that he gave us were pretty mundane, so no, I didn't. Look, I loved being on the orchard. We’d go out and play cowboys and indians and all kinds of stuff. Having, a couple hundred acres to roam around is something that I absolutely take for granted. And this is back in the 70s, so at that point, you know, parenting was like, good morning, get out of the house, dinner will be ready at five, don't hurt yourself, you know.
Lauren Stenger: Yeah, so after you graduated from Cornell, you went to New York City and you worked in advertising and then in 2000 you came to work for Red Jacket Orchards. So what drove you coming back to work at Red Jacket Orchards?
What drove you to return to Red Jacket Orchards in 2000?
Brian Nicholson: Well, I love the question and let me step back probably a little bit further, right? So, my brother and I were at Cornell. We both went to the Ag school. He actually majored in pomology, which is the study of apple growing. He did, he kind of had, I guess, a sense that he wanted to do that. Um, I, on the other hand, was a business major in marketing and a couple of things I really took in from Cornell. First of all, I love the experience because they load you up with work. So it really does test your ability to multitask and take on responsibility. And I think about my sophomore or junior year, my dad always preached one thing, you know, he's like, you gotta love what you do. So you know, don't ever consider coming back to the business unless you think it's something you want to do. And two, you got to go out and learn in the world and then go make mistakes on someone else's dime basically. So about my junior year I do remember saying to my dad, Oh god, I got to sit down and have this conversation with them and say, “You know dad I've learned a lot. Thanks for getting me to Cornell and supporting us. I am never ever ever coming back to the business.”
Lauren Stenger: Wow.
Brian Nicholson: It was a tough conversation. It's funny cause it's what he had always been saying, but I knew it kind of landed a little differently. And for me personally, I had to put those words on the table because even though his ethos was, go out and do your own thing, for him, the business was a big part of who he was in the life that he was living. So he related back to it a lot. For instance, if you picked a certain course, he'd be like, “Oh, that's interesting. But you know, if you were coming back to the business, why wouldn't you go take like a whatever course, like fruit growing.” And so I kind of had to get that proverbial “if” off the table. So I did that. I'm glad I did that, it freed me up a little bit emotionally, to be like, okay, now I can go do anything. And I took a job out of college with another family business. It was a Dutch flower bulb business, wonderful family, half of them still in Holland, the other half here in the US. It was a great job because I was doing merchandising with Home Depot and Walmart back when they were smaller companies, and I was doing electronic data interchange over a modem and doing a lot of data analytics, and then they gave me a sales route. So I learned a lot in a small period of time, and then I actually left there and started our own distribution business moving into New York City. And that was such an awesome, like, I was literally driving a little 18-foot truck up and down the streets of New York for roughly six months, landed a bunch of nice accounts. Worked with my dad a bit, and at that point, got a little bit tired when a customer would, you know, I'd unload all these boxes in New York City on the street, and for some reason they'd reject it, right? And typically it was like the wrong specification, like the apple was too small or something. So I'd call my dad up and say, “Dad, I got another rejection, you know, I put in the order, I need an 80 count.” And I'll never forget his words, he's like, “Hey, Brian. You got to sell what we grow.” And I was like, okay, I think we're kind of heading in even a different path here already. So, you know what, I brought in a guy in to run it and I went into advertising, and it was one of the most incredible experiences I had. And the reason I talk about that is, I really had to go work for someone and learn the important craft of making your boss successful. If you make your boss successful and your client successful, you might find some success. And I did. So, five years into it, I worked with Procter Gamble, and had some amazing customers. I learned, I traveled the country behind one-way mirrors, doing research with customers and shooting commercials. It was a perfect after college job.
And my girlfriend at the time, who is my wife, we were college sweethearts. We got married and that's when we decided it was time to leave the city. And I'll never forget my dad's, I do admire his opportunism. He smelled opportunity and he's like, “Hey, if you're switching jobs, now's the time to at least take a look. So in 2000, my wife and I moved back up and I landed in a business where things weren't as rosy as I had thought they were, and I spent probably the next five years working really hard to help regenerate the business and shore it up in the operational side and the sales side and all that. My first five years were really focused on that. Then my twin brother Mark came back to the business a couple of years after me. So, was there a great design? Did I hit an epiphany moment where I wanted to come back to the business? Not really, but I wouldn't trade that decision for anything at this point.
Lauren Stenger: Yeah. And now you're the CEO and the president of this awesome business. So I'm kind of curious, as a third-generation owner, how do you kind of manage this balance of keeping tradition, uh, keeping tradition and also making modern changes with the way trends are going?
As a third-generation owner, how do you manage this balance of keeping tradition while also making modern changes?
Brian Nicholson: So a great question. And, you know, I could probably spend hours on this conversation. So I won't do that, of course we don't have that time. But there is a lot along the way in the journey, probably some of the big parts of the journey for me, one was, my dad, my brother and myself really found our places in the business where we kind of had our own autonomy and yet our passion zones where we collaborated extremely well and were able to drive a lot of success in the business by working extremely hard, a lot of hours doing the things that we enjoyed. So that is a gift, right? And for instance, that little distribution business that I had started five years prior was really kind of growing up and our retail business in New York City, which is the farmer's market, so we were a green market grower, that New York City business was shaping what the business was doing because it was about 30% of our business. And in that venue, you can only sell what you grow. So that kind of informed what we had to plant to set the shelf. At the time, my dad was really just experimenting with these new fruit juice concepts. We had been making apple cider forever. When I entered the business, this was exciting for me. I'm like, Oh, beverage. I know nothing about beverage, you know, but gee, we're selling these kinds of cool juices and at this point we literally have no label on the bottle. It's like a white mail, every mail label that you printed on an inkjet printer, so very, really grassroots and it was a really small part of the business. Our agriculture side, our unique fruits like apricots and plums and all that was really driving the business. My job was really to kind of establish some core relationships with retailers, and I was super fortunate because at this time, talking now early 2000, the local food movement was really blossoming. What we really did was become a really strong local brand within the local food movement within the Metro New York marketplace, which is one of the best marketplaces on the planet and the Metro New York marketplace is always about say 10 years ahead of probably the rest of the country. So not only were we performing at a high level in that market, we were using all that learning consumer learning to advance our products much more rapidly. So when you're selling direct to consumers in New York City, one of the great things about that is they're not afraid to tell you when you're doing something right or doing something wrong. And I can tell you, I sold a lot more bad juice than good juice at, at, at certain times.
So, you know, probably for the next say decade, that's what we did and we were making juice in the back of a pack house. We were really that model of high vertical integration, which at the time the ag sector was really starting to sort of champion as a model to help smaller farms survive the commodity space. So that's what we did. We were high service, high quality, unique products. We were kind of the FedEx of fruit, like we would literally have fruit picked and packed in, in the consumer's hand a day later, so ultimate freshness. When you're selling in the streets of New York, you get a lot of food editors as your customers, so we were able to enjoy quite a bit of national recognition in the New York Times and better homes and gardens and gourmet magazine. And what that really did was start creating this transition of Red Jacket as a nice family farm with a great farmer's market to a recognized food brand. Being a brand guy, I recognized some of what the power of those attributes were and how we could continue to leverage them. Our juice business, through a lot of trial and error, started to grab hold. In about 2008, we realized we couldn't keep making that product the way we wanted to in the back of a pack house. Simultaneously, the customers that I started selling to were like Whole Foods. And at that time, Whole Foods literally had one store in the metro region. Also like FreshDirect, which is an online company. So it was a great symbiotic relationship with our customers where we were bringing them unique things, we were like the local brand, they needed local, local, local. We were able to scale our business to scale the demand that they were kind of bringing in that they were having as they were exploding in their sales. So that was all just kind of really good and synergistic. In 2008, we built a new juice facility. And at that time we basically, as my lawyer told us, like, well, you, you can do this or you can keep doing what you're doing. But if you go do this big kind of refinancing of the business, you're literally betting the farm. So if you lose in that, in that venture, you're, you could lose the farm.
Lauren Stenger: That’s a big risk.
Brian Nicholson: Yeah, super big risk. So another attribute of our business and our family is, first of all, we are very passionate about delivering products that make people go, wow. So if it's run of the mill or a me too product, we're just not quite that excited about it. We may have it in our portfolio and, consumers in our farmer markets, we were sampling and we could then tweak the product. The other thing that we take a lot of pride in is we are contrarians. My grandfather was a contrarian to the extent of, if you said green, he'd say red. He would set you up for debate. And so I learned that art of debating. We, you know, with my grandfather and even my dad carries a lot of that, and I think we really embrace that sort of contrariness in November of 2008, so November of 2008, you may recall, is when the financial meltdown occurred, and in November of 2008, we were literally signing a note for this major expansion, and our local lender gave us the money. And, um, we weren't sure what was going to happen to the local food movement at that time. People were paying a premium. And luckily, fortunately for us, the local food movement stayed strong and even grew stronger. Even though when we opened our juice plant, there were some crop issues, and so the raw product costs quadrupled. So we survived all of that. In in about 2012 is really when things started getting challenging for us as a family. We lost a crop. We lost three crops in five years. So between 2012 and 2017, we lost three crops. Fortunately, we had insurance on, that would help on some of it, but it really did take its toll on the orchards and in the orchard business. So right around 2017 we kind of had to make a choice. We had 220 employees, a lot of seasonal employees. We were running orchards, we were running a pack house, we were running a juice facility. We were running distribution, and we were running retail in New York City.
“My grandfather was a contrarian to the extent of, if you said green, he’d say red. He would set you up for debate. And so, I learned that art of debating.”
Lauren Stenger: That’s a lot.
Brian Nicholson: Yes, and when you're doing that and you're growing at 30%, if you're not really financing that to the tune of either that growth and running that many sorts of divisions is capital intensive, right? Like the orchard needed to new trees, the distribution needed new trucks, all that stuff. So we really did take on quite a bit of debt. We were running a fairly levered business at that point. And when the final crop failure happened, uh, it really created a fork in the road that the family had to make a decision on, are we going to stay in agriculture or are we going to, advance this really interesting beverage business that was showing consistent profit and growth?
Lauren Stenger: So is that when you guys pivoted to more primarily the juice industry?
Brian Nicholson: This is correct. Yeah. And it was some tough decision making, and we had to refinance the business a couple of times. So why am I the CEO at this point? Not by any like grand design. I think I was just able to really help the business and the family navigate those challenging, really important times of decision making and not without a lot of stress and personal stress. But, I feel that what I was able to do to really survive. My joke sometimes is, you know, we were a family business that was just able to survive its last mistake, you know, and on the outside, everything looked pretty good, but in the inside, it was quite a bit of financial stress.
Lauren Stenger: Yeah, and additionally, I think it's even more obviously dynamic when you're running not just a business, but a family business, because not only are there complexities within your work life, but then also trickles, of course, into your personal life, and they're so intersected. So that must have been a very challenging dynamic to manage at times when things were looking difficult.
“And what really was the path for me personally that really sort of led to my journey in becoming a leader was the work I actually did on myself personally. ”
Brian Nicholson: I’ve been fortunate to have had a great group of folks that I invited into my life to help advise me. And at first it was to help advise me on the business. And what really was the path for me personally, that really sort of led to my journey in becoming a leader was the work I actually did on myself personally. I remember distinctly thinking, and to some extent, getting some say family feedback, why are you spending time on that versus time on the business? And there's a lot of guilt. And you know, when you grew up in the clan or the, the group, the family dynamic. I think our family dynamic was very much a lot about the business first and the family second from a generational standpoint. That's not necessarily how my brother and I were wired, and it was very important for us to balance the family and work, but that wasn't necessarily met with, say, a lot of support, perhaps from my father. Never anything really negative there, but certainly I think a little confusion on how that's all going to add up.
I would say today, I wouldn't be here without joining Young Presidents Organization and having the benefit of a forum where I have six amazing other leaders of businesses in a meeting once a month to have like a personal board of advisors and working with a relationship coach, working with a consultant in my business. At one time, my wife's like, how many coaches do you have? And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know how many, I don't know how many, it's all right now. It's all working. This person's helping me on that. You know, this relationship coach is not a business coach, you know, they're not going to run my business for me. I feel blessed because I was able to take that personal challenge and be curious enough personally to know that I was missing something. There was something for me that was missing in what are my experiential learning or mentoring that I needed to get from somewhere else, so I was able to go and kind of get those things.
And, it certainly helped me sort of navigate when family members had to make other choices. For instance, my brother, Mark lived and worked in the business, and within three years, he decided to move back to DC. It was a family choice, and I made a decision to actually retain him and have him work remotely. I wouldn't have a juice business today if I didn't do that because he was able to focus on that business at a time I needed to focus on finances and operations. I think another piece of our family journey has been really kind of finding the sweet spot in each individual and having them contribute in a way that they can. So back to the green markets, I started that green market back in the nineties with my older brother and he was in between college, and he stuck around and he ended up moving to New York City and running our business and growing it. That wouldn't have happened if we didn't have that family member at that time who wanted to take that on as a project and it became a big part of the business. Yeah.
Lauren Stenger: My next question for you is, just speaking to about your personal relationship to the business, what does your company mission of “Integrity- Hard work for excellence- Respect for our people and planet- Innovation always” mean for you?
For you, what does your company’s core values of “Integrity- Hard work for excellence- Respect for our people and planet- Innovation always.” mean for you?
Brian Nicholson: So those are our core value, and we have a mission statement that goes with that, which complement each other. So our mission is to inspire healthier eating through making delicious, healthy food. The second part of that is to add value, to add value to all of the stakeholders and those stakeholders are our staff members, the community, it's our business partners, not just our customers, but our vendors and our suppliers and our distributors. In the end, we manage all of that, I like to look at it as we manage all that from the ground up, right? We're a fresh business, so all of our ingredients come very closely directly from out of the ground, most of them from within 100 miles. That in itself is a really big challenge. And what we keep in mind is we're a CPG company. We are an ag company. We're a farm you know, we're all of those things, but one of the most important things is keeping that eye on the customer, the consumer who's consuming our product and that's been our north star. So, our north star has been, are we continuing to deliver what we now call juice joy. Right? Are they having an experiential relationship with our product because we are doing our craft so well that in a very highly volatile raw product supply, they're only experiencing the end product of us making a great product, making it with integrity, making it with high quality ingredients and being very mindful of how we're getting it and what we're doing with it.
So back to your question on core values. Yes. Our core values are statements, I remember when we were putting together, I was asked to think back in my history. What made your grandparents successful? What made your dad successful? And what is making you successful today? And it was really kind of quick easy sort of work to kind of get down to those major attributes. Integrity is number one and integrity is that simple sort of definition of what are you doing? What are the decisions making you're making if no one is really looking or checking?
“Integrity is number one and integrity is that simple sort of definition of what are you doing? What are the decisions making you’re making if no one is really looking or checking?”
Can you open up all of your books at the end of the day and say “Hey, go look at them” like this is we operate above board on everything and you know there's a lot of paths in decision making, when say the raspberries are short and they're super expensive, do you think about doing concentrates and flavorings, or do you stay pure to your ingredient path? And that is something we've always done. Respect for people and planet goes hand in hand with that. That talks about our community engagement, how we care about our employees. We can always do more for employees. I know that, um, but we can do more for them when we are actually driving profits to invest back in the business. But we're not gonna do it at the expense of our people in our community. Respect for the planet is something that we're just innately involved with. I mean, we are growers, right? So if you're not thinking long term about how you're managing your resources, then you're shortchanging yourself in the long run.
Lauren Stenger: It’s just going to hurt yourself in the long run.
Brian Nicholson: Exactly. And you know, when you're coming from a generational business, you can't help but think very far out long term. So we're not making decisions based on the season or even the month. We're making what hopefully is a lot longer term decision. At the end of the day, we are a waste stream reclamation. We upcycle basically almost all of our ingredients and we make a product that is healthy, and we do that with zero food waste. So we're really in that core.
“At the end of the day, we are a waste stream reclamation. We upcycle basically almost all of our ingredients and we make a product that is healthy, and we do that with zero food waste.”
Lauren Stenger: That’s huge.
Brian Nicholson: Yeah. Those words are really important today and we've been doing it forever, but sometimes you have to make sure you're also reminding people, we are doing this, you know, let's not take for granted what we have been doing and what we are doing. Innovation is another one, and innovation is really all about not just product innovation, it's about solving problems. I do take a lot of pride that we generationally have been a family that tries to solve problems. The examples of family members going and doing different sort of things. So it's a core part of what we do. You said this word earlier about culture. So today my role as our business has really fully transitioned into almost primarily beverage. You know, we have we have orchards still and we have family members who are doing that. I particularly am not actually doing that myself because I've been advancing our beverage business and I'm super excited about it because there's so much work to do. So if you look at our life cycle of our business, we went from basically a mom-and-pop shop into a very diverse value-added business stream to today where I have 40 employees and we're doing double the revenue and we're doing more profitability because we are really honing the craft of the beverage making. And that's who we are today. That's who we're going to be tomorrow.
People always kind of ask me as well, so is there a fourth gen in the wing? And up until I would say, maybe three years ago, that was a very hard thing for me to say, because at that time I would say, I would never want my kids to go through this, you know, there's a lot of pain and stress on relationships, you know, as you said, family businesses, you're managing both. Um, but today I've got twins are in college and 16-year-old coming up behind and, if they expressed interest, my daughter actually is interning with us and doing some brand ambassador work on campus, and she seems to be having some fun and she's learning a lot through it. She said one day. Hey, I'm interested. Great. You know, you got to still go out and, you know, make your way in the world first. But, um, she also said, “Hey, thanks for that experience that I really got to know the family business and I'm not coming back”, I can sleep at night very well and comfortable. At the end of the day, my job is to add value and grow value. One of the things that I'm probably most grateful for is that our role in the fruit industry, you know, we are taking in a lot of waste product and creating a whole new value stream in our fresh fruit juices, which, no one really is kind of doing that in our space. So we take a lot of pride in that and it's a long-term craft.
Lauren Stenger: Yeah, that's awesome. Well, thank you so much for chatting with me today. I really appreciated all your insights. I definitely learned so much and I really appreciate you taking the time today.
Brian Nicholson: Well, let me appreciate you, Lauren. I, thanks for doing this and Double Take, I love the name and I think your work, you know, I've had done a bunch of these recently to be honest, and I am so impressed with your generation who can really look at this and approach it from a journalistic standpoint, because that is so critical for just society in general, but I'm so happy to see people like you engaged in taking the time to interview as old folks and, and get some insights. And hopefully that's beneficial to some of your listeners.
Lauren Stenger: Thank you so much. I really appreciate that.
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